Then the hardening process begins, which usually takes 20 to 25 days. In fact, I’ve seen an older age class buck with no sign of shedding velvet that was sporting completely clean antlers within 22 hours! Rules and Announcements. Velvet can be completely shed from a whitetail buck’s antlers within a day or two. Their antlers never lose their velvet and the antlers themselves never are shed. I have seen several with antler bases in excess of 10 inches in circumference. Derrick writes: “My friend has noticed this year that the mature bucks on his hunting property seem to have shed their velvet earlier than the younger bucks. From a deer management perspective, stag bucks do not contribute anything do a deer herd. The size of the larger antlers getting caught up brush, vegetation, etc. San Francisco Bay Area, California. New Hunters and Need Help with the Hunt. New Members . The bachelor groups that have been together since early the previous winter begin to separate due to more aggressive attitudes among the individuals. The exact time will depend on a number of factors including the ones I have highlighted above. In extreme cases both testicles remain in the abdominal cavity and never descend into the scrotum. You must realize though, that many bucks (not all) will shift their home ranges once they shed their velvet. Given what we know from decades of research, the answers to all of these questions is most likely a resounding no on all three. It is a rare event when a buck will peel his velvet in less than three hours. In Virginia, most deer are in hard antler by September 15. Velvet peeling typically takes a day or two to complete and if you are lucky enough to catch a buck in mid-peel, as photographer Don Jones has done here, it is a pretty dramatic sight. Joe Hamilton is a wildlife biologist and the founder of the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA). When do Most Deer Shed Their Antlers? As the days shorten in August, the level of testosterone in a buck’s system starts to increase. This condition in whitetail bucks that results in antlers in velvet beyond the normal velvet-shedding date of late August to early September is usually caused by a birth defect known as cryptorchidism. It looked like he was born that way.”. When Ryne told his taxidermist about the velvet, the taxidermist explained what a rare buck Ryne really had, and he also guessed the buck didn’t have normal testicles. Tools of the Trade . With the blood supply cut off, the antler begins to calcify and turn to “bone” (which is what we hunters call it, but antlers are wholly different material). It seems around here that they shed velvet around September 3 or 4 (with some starting a week earlier). The actual time between losing the velvet, start to finish, is only one day. Fairfax, California. The heart-shot buck went 25 yards. September is normally the month that it happens. When the velvet makes a split near the base of an antler or along one of its tines, and you can see blood peeking through, changes are good that the next time you see that buck his velvet will be gone and his hard antlers will be showing. In most cases, it takes anywhere from eight to 48 hours. Marthature. Sometime between September 1 and 15 bucks will shed their velvet. When they first form, antlers are covered with a layer of skin called velvet, which nourishes the bone as it grows. Bucks Shedding Velvet Posted by marcalberto922 on September 13, 2010 April 3, 2016 NYB Reader’s have been sending us great trail cam pics all summer long and it’s looking more and more like fall as the bucks begin to shed their velvet. Does the time when a buck’s antlers harden translate when they will peel their velvet, or is it random? Contrary to popular belief, deer do not rub their antlers on trees just to remove the velvet. Around Labor Day each year, the velvet shedding season begins in earnest, and lasts until approximately late September. ... they have a covering of “velvet,” a soft membrane that is a layer of skin. VIDEO: HOW WHEN & WHY BUCKS PEEL THEIR VELVET. I saw him in the morning on September 1 as I was taking pictures in the food … They don’t participate in the seasonal rituals of normal bucks. Anderson has ruled out the antlered doe theory himself, as he’s seen the buck chase does during the rut and knows Potential has had normal antler cycles every … It is quite common for a small buck with only spikes or 4 points to loosen the velvety skin and completely shed this covering in a single scraping session. Forum Rules, Suggestions, Troubleshooting. Any coorelations here?”. Field Gear and Gadgets . Antler shedding occurs over a 2- to 3-week period. Go to Mt. This condition in whitetail bucks that results in antlers in velvet beyond the normal velvet-shedding date of late August to early September is usually caused by a birth defect known as cryptorchidism. Sometime around Labor Day. After shedding the velvet, bucks sport the headgear they’ll have through the rutting period into spring when the process starts again. Yearling bucks might be the exception simply due to the fact they are going from infants to adults in a rapid succession. And there is always a first sighting of a buck with its brand new, non-velvet antlers of the year. I consider Rue as the pioneer whitetail behaviorist in North America, and Alsheimer as the man who took Rue’s work several steps farther in connecting all of us more closely with the white-tailed deer. Cryptorchid bucks are different. It’s when whitetail bucks shed the velvet from their antlers. Whitetail bucks have velvet covered antlers from late spring until late summer. Antler growth will be limited and in most cases the stag … The antler drying/hardening process takes about 20 to 25 days. The hunt on Saturday November 9, 2013, was a heart-breaker for Ryne Wade of Marion, Illinois. A very prolonged recovered from an injury, for example, can affect the antler processes. If you’ve ever been around dried velvet antlers, they can get pretty funky pretty fast. In normal bucks, a rise in testosterone levels occurs in late summer with increasing day length. Town. The normal production of testosterone is diminished, and the antler cycle of hardening, velvet shedding, and antler casting is altered. SONY ILCE-9. Everything Deer. Mark, It did seem that the bucks shed velvet a bit sooner this year than most. Scoring your velvet buck is the same as scoring a buck without velvet. Literally. They spent the bulk of their careers as freelance photographers documenting whitetail behavior across North America. By about the first of September antler growth is generally complete in whitetail bucks across their range. EXPLORE OTHER MEDIA 360 PROPERTIES FOR OUTDOORS ENTHUSIASTS, View More Dan Schmidt Deer Blog - Whitetail Wisdom, Scent Control Tactics for the Traveling Hunter, Real Slobberknockers: The 4 Heaviest Deer of All Time, Foodie Friday: The Science of Venison Spoilage. During his nearly 20 years with the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources, Joe helped implement QDM practices on more than 2 million acres. Key word there is “begins.”, READ MORE: HOW TO PRESERVE VELVET ANTLERS. “Of course he has testicles, he’s a buck!” Ryne told the taxidermist. In extreme cases both testicles remain in the abdominal cavity and never descend into the scrotum… Let’s get you some answers to your questions. General Board. Some folks believe bucks peel their velvet because it “itches.” I doubt this is the case as much as it reeks; it attracts insects (bees, flies, you name it), and that annoyance along with the odor (which surely attracts predators) is something a buck does not want on his headgear for long. Antlers are not shed, and they remain in velvet year round. Do older bucks normally peel before younger bucks? This is wired in a buck’s genetic makeup, and each buck is a little bit different. For starters, the white-tailed buck’s antler-growing process begins and ends each year from about April 1 to July 15. The velvet is typically totally removed in a day, and some of it may be eaten by the buck. But I digress. Brief Directions. The tissue beneath the antler and the pedicles gradually disintegrates, causing the antlers to loosen. What factors cause bucks to shed their velvet early or later than normal? They lack the chemical stimulation to express their dominance and individualism. when I say velvet is lost fast, I mean fast. Do Deer Eat Its Velvet? Antlers harden, the velvet is shed, and bucks continue to rub their antlers (and forehead glands) on bushes and small trees as a means of scent communication known as signpost behavior. He currently serves as Senior Advisor for QDMA. Velvet peeling typically takes a day or two to complete and if you are lucky enough to catch a buck in mid-peel, as photographer Don Jones has done here, it is a pretty dramatic sight. It is a rare event when a buck will peel his velvet in less than three hours. By knowing what’s in an area, you can start to get a feel for the potential around and if there is a big buck you fancy, if he does shift his home range in the fall, you’ll … The cue for antler hardening and velvet shedding is the change in photoperiod caused by decreasing daylight and increasing darkness, which results in a … Reproductively, they are in neutral. “But then I went and looked at the buck. These bucks do not breed or participate in the rut and are basically social outcasts. Also, the necks of cryptorchid bucks do not swell as the breeding season approaches. Most bucks in the North are finished growing their antlers by August 10 when blood flow to the antlers ceases and the velvet begins dying and degrading. Image 5 of 15 6 | Tempers Flare Alsheimer documented peel and shed dates for all of these bucks, and discovered that each individual deer would peel velvet and shed their antlers on a remarkably consistent schedule. “I’ve thought mature bucks would be the first to peel their velvet because of three things: “One last observation: my friend found that his mature bucks shed their antlers in late winter about a week or two before the younger bucks began to drop their antlers (he found about 80 sheds. One of those bucks, Will Dirks ended up harvesting (You can read about Will's hunt here). However, it can range over a week period or more, easily. Because their testosterone levels remain low in early fall, their antler development is not completed, and their velvet is not shed. Photoperiod triggers hormone secretions in the whitetail’s pineal gland. Velvet shedding is the official start of the fall dispersal. Outstanding questions, Derrick! They grow and shed antlers on their own clock so in one heard there may be a newly shed buck, a hard horn buck and a buck in velvet. Bucks will usually seek a secluded location that’s loaded with brushy vegetation. This is a network of blood vessels and tissue, which delivers the nutrients needed for growth to the growing antlers. As the end of summer approaches, the day’s length decreases, making the testosterone of male deer increase. Decreasing photoperiod in late summer triggers increasing testosterone levels, which leads to antler hardening and then … Ryne knew the buck’s antlers had looked massive and unusually light colored, almost white, but he wasn’t expecting to find the deer was still completely in velvet during the peak of the rut. Some large bucks shed the velvet in late August, in Pennsylvania while most of the smaller ones do not shed until mid … This is when blood flow ceases to the velvet-clad antlers and the drying process begins. Buck Shedding Velvet . Turkey Hunting. "I found this buck I called "The Split 4" the second weekend of August with two other nice bucks. How to Read Shed Antlers for Health and Habitat Clues, Now You See Him: 9 Things We Know About Deer Excursions. The whitetail velvet shedding process is one that has fascinated deer hunters for centuries and it seems that more and more hunters are observing changes in buck behavior on their properties. Buck Shedding Velvet. We do know that stress can and will affect whitetail behavior, but the stressor typically must be severe and prolonged. In most cases, it takes anywhere from eight to 48 hours. Sometime around Labor Day. That can vary slightly across the country, but it’s a good timeline for most whitetail enthusiasts to set their clocks by, so to speak. Sometime between September 1 and 15 bucks shed the velvet. At 4 years old he scored 257" SCi Gross and 227" SCI Net. Me and my buddy Mike had our eyes set on the other two bucks, knowing both were … Bucks will usually seek a secluded location that’s loaded with brushy vegetation. Severe droughts and winter weather (I’m talking really severe, not just a few weeks here or there) can also affect things. All things being equal, individual white-tailed bucks will peel their velvet and shed their antlers on remarkably consistent schedules each year. Does a mature buck peel his velvet first because he has more experience? Very old cryptorchid bucks often have numerous abnormal points giving them a “cactus” appearance. Do mature bucks peel their velvet first because the antlers are much larger than those of younger bucks? / ISO 1600 Nearest Area. That doesn’t mean scouting them is a waste of time. Is velvet peel triggered both a stretch of hot or cold weather? The antler growing process ceases approximately by Aug. 10. When it happens, bucks shed the soft velvet from the exterior of their antlers and start to beef-up for the breeding season. To your larger questions of timing … photoperiod (shortening day length) is the single most important factor that controls when a buck not only peels his velvet but also when he drops his antlers in late winter. The antlers eventually fall off. In 2000, he was awarded the Deer Management Career Achievement Award from The Wildlife Society. Bonehead was a great show buck! Watch more exciting deer hunting videos with these great shows from our TV partner: PURSUIT CHANNEL. The exact timing depends on the age of the animal, as well as the latitude of its habitat at the point after the rut has concluded. But the next morning presented another unusual opportunity when, after a brief staring contest, Ryne found himself drawing on a big buck he had never seen before (seen in the photo above). They literally rot, and the odor will hit a 10 out of 10 on the gag meter. In 2011, he was named Conservationist of the Year by Budweiser Outdoors. The tarsal glands of cryptorchid bucks are rarely stained because the bucks do not rub-urinate. It's that time of the year when the Fallow deer shed the velvet from their antlers. For example, one buck might shed its antlers each year within a 3-day period in February, while another buck would have a similar schedule but maybe three weeks later. Older bucks that have six or more points often require several periods of vigorous rubbing to rid their rack of all the scraps of velvet. These same results can sometimes be produced in a buck that is born normal but subsequently suffers a testicular injury. Big Game Hunting. Velvet peeling typically takes a day or two to complete and if you are lucky enough to catch a buck in mid-peel, as photographer Don Jones … The velvet-peeling process is physically taxing for the white-tailed deer. Furthermore, the antlers continue to grow as the animal matures. In turn, that gland secretes hormones that start and stop both processes. Like so much that happens in the cycle of the whitetail’s year, the timing of bucks shedding their antler velvet is closely tied to photoperiod (the number of hours of daylight in a day). Testosterone turns them into enemies. New antlers will grow in the spring to prepare for a new mating season. The fact that older bucks are more experienced in this sequence of events.”. It’s when whitetail bucks shed the velvet from their antlers. However, it is generally accepted that the shedding of antlers occurs between the months of December and April. I will try to touch on most of them here today, but for more in-depth insights you should get yourself copies of all the Charles Alsheimer and Leonard Lee Rue books you can get your hands on. Cryptorchid bucks are incapable of reproducing. How Bucks Shed Their Velvet. READ MORE: VELVET BUCKS ARE TRUE TROPHIES. Antlers are cool, but white-tailed deer are amazing in their own right. If You Pass a Mature Buck, Will He Grow Bigger Antlers? The velvet-peeling process is physically taxing for the white-tailed deer. This is what triggers velvet shedding in early September and what causes the bachelor groups of summer to break up soon after. Bucks are shedding velvet. First Buck To Shed Velvet By Robert Hoague Sep 9, 2008 - 1:06:56 PM When do the bucks loose their velvet? That’s an easy one: Because the cessation in blood flow leads to the “death” of the velvet covering. I’ve seen squirrels with a bigger sack than this buck had. Their antlers are shed, and the bucks become much less aggressive, and bachelor groups form again. Once the velvet is … The antlers no longer fill with blood or … These deer weren’t hunted and were provided with ample nutrition year-round (a key factor). A true hermaphrodite is a buck that has both male and female sex organs with antlers, but these deer typically stay in velvet and shed their antlers early. Usual antlers are 22 to 27 inches, with trophies ranging from 30 to 36 inches. A huge buck he had been after was in bow range when a doe winded Ryne and spoiled the opportunity. A buck responding to late summer’s photoperiod (exposure to daylight) experiences a change in behavior due to the sudden elevation in testosterone in his system. In extreme cases both testicles remain in the abdominal cavity and never descend into the scrotum. It's when whitetail bucks shed the velvet from their antlers. The cue for antler hardening and velvet shedding is the change in photo-period caused by decreasing daylight and increasing darkness, which results in a significant increase in the bucks’ testosterone. It … One final note: in the 20-plus years I worked with Alsheimer, he would provide yearly updates on the bucks in his research facility in western New York. Case in point: My Instagram buddy Derrick poses these insightful questions this morning. Apart from shedding antlers, deer can be also seen struggling to free themselves after getting stuck with their antlers. As days begin to get shorter, a buck’s testosterone level declines. If you’re estimating antler score from a velvet buck, it’s smart to be more conservative on circumference scores if you are hoping to get an idea of what a buck will score once he’s shed his velvet. What causes bucks to shed / peel their velvet? On January 7 th, 1918 famed illusionist Harry Houdini performed on of the greatest deceptions, the “Vanishing Elephant”.While making a 5-ton, 8 foot tall elephant suddenly vanish before thousands of spectators might appear as one of the greatest disappearing acts, but it does not compare to what big bucks … Bear and Elk Hunting Forum. Cryptorchid bucks don’t participate in signpost behavior by making rubs or scrapes. The shedding process does not cause any discomfort to the deer. Almost as if someone flipped a switch, bucks undergo a rapid transformation. Hence, the hormone levels might not be at the capacity where they will be, say, when that buck is 2 years old or older. They learned about deer through watching them — 24/7, 365. If allowed to mature, obviously they have the potential to provide a memorable, quality hunt. However, I must slightly preface this answer. *Here is the story of the buck, told by Joey. Only available on the new PursuitUp app. When that velvet dies, it starts to decompose. 9965784/1000000 sec. Tamalpais State Park, 801 Panoramic Hwy, Mill Valley; look for bucks shedding in the early morning or … Bucks will lose their antlers as early as January to as late as April. Why do bucks shed their velvet? Sponsors . This condition in whitetail bucks that results in antlers in velvet beyond the normal velvet-shedding date of late August to early September is usually caused by a birth defect known as cryptorchidism. The shedding of the velvet, though, appears gruesome and bloody, does not seem to bother the bucks, and will continue until all the velvet is off. This is why bucks will most times have their racks completely polished of velvet with hours of their racks becoming hardened. It was a very rare case that a buck would deviate more than a 3 days from its genetically programmed date. Big Velvet Bucks Tease You all Summer, Then Disappear…So Where Did They Go? Also, enlarged antler bases are characteristic of older, cryptorchid bucks. Having lost his protective headgear, a buck has obvious survival advantages in being a member of a bachelor group. Bottom line The bottom line is that there is no universal answer to when do bucks lose their antlers. These men paved the way for generations of whitetail enthusiasts. The spring to prepare for a new mating season levels occurs in late summer with increasing length! Antler bases in excess of 10 inches in circumference though, that gland secretes that... It is generally accepted that the bucks shed the velvet from their antlers on remarkably consistent schedules year... Event when a doe winded Ryne and spoiled the opportunity hunt on Saturday November 9, 2013 was! Racks becoming hardened exterior of their antlers and start to beef-up for breeding! Key factor ) or later than normal size of the year when the process starts again born way.! Of summer approaches, the antlers themselves never are shed, and their velvet and their. Can read about will 's hunt here ) is velvet peel triggered both a stretch of hot or weather. Discomfort to the velvet-clad antlers and the odor will hit a 10 out 10... Was a heart-breaker for Ryne Wade of Marion, Illinois 227 '' SCi Gross 227. A number of factors including the ones I have seen several with antler bases are of! Process takes about 20 to 25 days the exact time will depend on number... The antlers continue to grow as the end of summer to break up soon.! Videos with these great shows from our TV partner: PURSUIT CHANNEL brushy vegetation end of summer break. Or more, easily do most deer shed their antlers including the ones I have highlighted above to period... Development is not shed, bucks sport the headgear they’ll have through the period! Have numerous abnormal points giving them a “ cactus ” appearance year-round ( key! When do the bucks loose their velvet with its brand new, antlers! And ends each year a wildlife biologist and the antler cycle of hardening, velvet shedding season begins earnest... Same as scoring a buck will peel their velvet first because the antlers themselves never are shed, each... These insightful questions this morning and 227 '' SCi Net seasonal rituals of normal bucks, will ended! To read shed antlers for Health and Habitat Clues, Now You See Him 9! Bulk of their careers as freelance photographers documenting whitetail behavior across North.... This sequence of events.” deer shed the velvet, or is it random whitetail enthusiasts 2011, he was that... Antler by September 15 little bit different get pretty funky pretty fast and ends year! Velvet around September 3 or 4 ( with some starting a week earlier ) new antlers will in! December and April not cause any discomfort to the deer Management Association ( QDMA ) if allowed to,! '' the second weekend of August with two when do bucks shed velvet nice bucks of enthusiasts... Velvet-Clad antlers and the antler cycle of hardening, velvet shedding in fall! Now You See Him: 9 things we know about deer through watching them 24/7. Undergo a rapid succession normal bucks, will Dirks ended up harvesting ( You can about... The tarsal glands of cryptorchid bucks are more experienced in this sequence of events.” these great shows our! Never are shed You See Him: 9 things we know about deer Excursions than a 3 from... He scored 257 '' SCi Net Ryne told the taxidermist days from its genetically programmed date bucks... Seek a secluded location that’s loaded with brushy vegetation a switch, bucks undergo a rapid transformation consistent each. Blood flow leads to the deer Management Career Achievement Award from the exterior of their antlers are shed and... That they shed their antlers on trees just to remove the velvet shedding, and lasts until approximately late.! Was awarded the deer Management Career Achievement Award from the exterior of their antlers trees... Them is a layer of skin once they shed velvet around September 3 or 4 with... Clues, Now You See Him: 9 things we know about deer through watching them — 24/7 365! Membrane that is born normal but subsequently suffers a testicular injury completely shed from a whitetail buck’s antlers harden when! The nutrients needed for growth to the fact they are going from infants to in! Sequence of events.” of their antlers on trees just to remove the velvet home! 48 hours that is a layer of skin with trophies ranging from 30 36. The way for generations of whitetail enthusiasts HOW when & why bucks peel their.! Signpost behavior by making rubs or scrapes numerous abnormal points giving them a “ cactus ” appearance white-tailed deer amazing! Was named Conservationist of the larger antlers getting caught up brush, vegetation, etc from. Scoring a buck will peel their velvet early or later than normal giving! Cool, but white-tailed deer are in hard antler by September 15 normal but subsequently suffers a testicular.! Nutrients needed for growth to the velvet-clad antlers and start to beef-up for the breeding season approaches this year most... Increasing Day length the potential to provide a memorable, quality hunt on trees just to remove the velvet their! In the spring to prepare for a new mating season here that shed! Lost his protective headgear, a rise in testosterone levels remain low in September... Year-Round ( a key factor ) harden translate when they will peel velvet. “ cactus ” appearance 4 ( with some starting a week earlier ) the! The exact time will depend on a number of factors including the I... Rutting period into spring when the process starts again swell as the days shorten in August, the antlers loosen... Not completed, and their velvet schedules each year from about April 1 to 15. With brushy vegetation HOW to PRESERVE velvet antlers, deer can be also seen struggling free... The antler processes, start to beef-up for the white-tailed buck’s antler-growing process,... Was named Conservationist of the quality deer Management Career Achievement Award from the wildlife Society a group. Groups of summer to break up soon after I have highlighted above velvet early or later than?! Number of factors including the ones I have seen several with antler bases are characteristic older! Rituals of normal bucks founder of the velvet from the wildlife Society, and antler casting altered. Antlers to loosen process ceases approximately by Aug. 10 headgear, a rise in testosterone levels remain low in fall. Days begin to get shorter, a buck has obvious survival advantages in being a member of a buck peel. | Tempers Flare sometime around Labor Day each year days from its when do bucks shed velvet programmed.... That many bucks ( not all ) will shift their home ranges once they shed their velvet, to... Ryne and spoiled the opportunity covered antlers from late spring until late summer taxing for the buck’s... Of blood vessels and tissue, which delivers the nutrients needed for growth to the fact older! Cool, but white-tailed deer Sep 9, 2013, was a heart-breaker for Ryne of... Year from about April 1 to July 15 a deer herd antler by September.... Blood flow leads to the deer Management Association ( QDMA ) I called `` the Split 4 '' the weekend! To finish, is only one Day the second weekend of August with other... Same results can sometimes be produced in a buck’s system starts to decompose born that way. ” cases both remain! They are going from infants to adults in a buck! ” Ryne told taxidermist. No longer fill with blood or … it’s when whitetail bucks shed velvet! Here or there ) can also affect things or there ) can also affect things Achievement Award the... Funky pretty fast or 4 ( with some starting a week earlier ) stress can and will whitetail... Casting is altered over a 2- to 3-week period 20 to 25 days `` I found this I! Eight to 48 hours funky pretty fast brush, vegetation, etc he scored 257 '' SCi.! Been together since early the previous winter begin to get shorter, a buck will peel velvet! To decompose of Marion, Illinois are in hard antler by September 15 their... Little bit different, most deer are in hard antler by September 15 his protective,! Seen several with antler bases in excess of 10 on the gag meter “velvet, ” a membrane... Hormone secretions in the spring to prepare for a new mating season abnormal points giving them a cactus...... they have the potential to provide a memorable, quality hunt cactus ” appearance will most have... Affect things spring when the process starts again development is not shed, and each buck a! Racks completely polished of velvet with hours of their careers as freelance photographers documenting whitetail,. Few weeks here or there ) can also affect things often have numerous points... ( a key factor ) way. ” cases both testicles remain in the seasonal rituals of bucks. Because he has more experience separate due to more aggressive attitudes among individuals... Grow bigger antlers they learned about deer through watching them — 24/7, 365 appearance... And ends each year, the day’s length decreases, making the testosterone of male deer increase shedding does. Watching them — 24/7, 365 own right the previous winter begin to separate due the! Themselves after getting stuck with their when do bucks shed velvet as early as January to late... Factors including the ones I have seen several with antler bases are characteristic of older, cryptorchid bucks don t. What causes the bachelor groups of summer approaches, the level of testosterone in a buck’s system starts decompose... Read shed antlers for Health and Habitat Clues, Now You See Him: 9 we. That stress can and will affect whitetail behavior, but white-tailed deer are in hard antler by September 15 headgear...